A group of local physicians was very concerned by the post concerning the COVID-19 vaccine that was published in the Local Jewish News Tuesday morning. We approached Dr. Michael Lederman, who has spent his entire career in the study of virology and immunology and is one of the foremost experts in this area, for his thoughts. They appear, unedited, below. He is Professor of Medicine at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine and University Hospitals/Case Medical Center where he is also Professor of Biomedical Ethics, Pathology, Microbiology and Molecular Biology. He is a member of the Association of American Physicians, the American Association of Immunologists, the Infectious Diseases Society of America and is a Fellow of the American Association of Microbiology and the American Association for the Advancement of Science. He is editor in chief of the scientific journal Pathogens and Immunity.
A number of local physicians have approached me and asked me what I thought of Dr. Eli Fink’s piece on COVID-19 vaccines in the December 7 Local Jewish News. I took a look at it and sadly, it is loaded with misinformation reflective of a poor understanding of immunity and cell biology. Here’s the scoop: While Dr. Fink is correct that the messenger RNA platform is new for vaccines, messenger RNA doesn’t do anything that he says it does. It doesn’t last long in cells as all messenger RNAs are designed to degrade. It is completely incapable of inserting itself into our own DNA as our cells don’t have the enzymes that are needed to make this happen. Dr. Fink goes on to tell us that viral infections trigger autoimmunity by getting their genes translated into our cells’ DNA. Utter nonsense! Messenger RNAs are not translated into DNA, they are translated into proteins – that’s how these vaccines work!
COVID-19 has killed nearly 300,000 Americans to date and will kill plenty more before this is all over. It’s true that most deaths are among the elderly but even infants have died of COVID-19. These RNA vaccines work, cutting down infection risk and serious disease by 90% or more. Dr Fink says we don’t know yet that these vaccines decrease transmission of the virus. Well maybe he doesn’t know it for sure but based on how these vaccines work, I would wager his life that immunization decreases transmission of the virus. If you choose to believe Dr. Fink’s nonsense, you’ll be wagering your life too!
Michael M. Lederman MD
Professor of Medicine
Professor of Microbiology/Molecular Biology, Pathology and Biomedical Ethics
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
MAF says
LJN, thank you for publishing this article.
Eli Fink says
My friends, we’ve lost the forest for the trees.
The point of my post was to inform the community that the long-term effects of these vaccines are completely unknown. We have no experience with anything like them to begin to know what to expect. In my view, this means they remain experimental.
It is unfortunate that I offered several possible examples of what could go wrong. This opened the door for critics to pick apart the science on which these concerns were based. I can bring world-class expert opinions to support every one of my points. And others can bring arguments that call them into question.
But that misses the larger picture. The key message is that we don’t know what the long term effects will be one, five, ten, twenty years from now. We don’t know the long term effects on our immune system, our muscles, our blood vessels, our brains, our nerves, our skin and connective tissue, our reproductive system. Volunteers were not allowed to become pregnant during the trials. We have no data regarding the long term effects of these vaccines on human fertility.
You can focus on those details of the science that you disagree with. But that just distracts from the real message. We don’t know. And the community has a right to know this.
Community Member says
Dr Lederman, rather than simply writing condescendingly that this is “nonsense”, and responding to each point with “nonsense”, it would benefit the public if you would go into more detail as to how these things actually DO work, rather than countering each point with a single oversimplified sentence. You may be right in what you are saying, (I have no experience in medicine) but from the long list of credentials at the beginning of the article, I was hoping to read a more thought out and thorough response, rather than a condescending shaming of a respected doctor in the community. “I would wager HIS life”?? “Doctor Fink’s nonsense”?? That is extremely unprofessional and makes me distrust what you are saying…especially when you barely brought any explanation of your own, which I’m sure you have, but you decided not to go into very much detail and took the easy approach of simply discrediting Dr. Fink.
Dr. Fink may have published something that you consider misinformed medical advice, but what you published was extremely low quality as well. You should consider rewriting this to be more educational, informative, and professional.
RCS says
Perhaps Dr. Lederman was responding in such a way because the misinformation Dr. Fink chose to spread was, in fact, nonsense, and by passing off nonsense as valid medical opinion, he was putting a stumbling block in front of the blind. Does that not deserve a sharp response?
I don’t view it as unprofessional in the least, instead, I view it as someone with extensive experience and knowledge who took time from his busy schedule to address and refute what Dr. Fink incorrectly and irresponsibly shared.
It is far more irresponsible of Dr. Fink to have written something that, according to the opinions of all the experts who weighed in yesterday and today, he clearly is not qualified to write.
You mention that you do not have experience in medicine. Dr. Lederman clearly has ample experience in this field. Dr. Fink does not. That in and of itself should be enough to rely on.
Daniel Fleksher, M.D. says
This is exactly right. Sometimes the truth hurts. But not nearly as much as the consequences of misinformation reflected in the original piece and, much more so, in many of the foolish comments seen here.
Many of the physicians and nurses of this community have borne witness to irresponsible behavior unbecoming of who we are meant to be, and we have seen the consequences as well.
It’s time to accept personal responsibility for each other.
May be zocheh to refuos hanefesh v’refuos haguf b’mehayrah.
Rivky says
Any doctor who needs to resort to retorting in such a condescending way has lost all respect in my eyes. This is not the way to have A respectful conversation. Any doctor that is truly concerned should be able to present his argument with facts and sources that speak for themselves without calling someone else’s opinion nonsense. It is unprofessional in ANY setting, and absolutely has no place in our community.
TDs says
My thoughts exactly!
Duvid says
This isn’t science class. You can believe what and who you want.
I’ll go with the expert.
concerened frum doctor says
Wonderful
to the point
now hopefully as a community we will double down on mask wearing, social distancing and take a vaccine when available
Tds says
Dr thank you for taking the time to write this. But i am still confused. Why are u wagering his life abt the transmission of disease from the vaccine? The vaccine in their own words does not prevent transmission. This is a fact. How do u know otherwise?
You say it’s 90% effective but at what? 90% of how many ppl? We’re expected to believe that 90% of 30,000 subjects. But thats not the case. Read the study and you’ll see that its only from 95 subjects in one company and i believe 300 something in the other. And still it was unclear exactly what it was effective at. Reducing symptoms? And what abt the side effects of the vaccine itself? Acc to the study they only recorded problems still reported 2 weeks AFTER the SECOND dose. Didn’t record any of the rest. And how do u know it can’t cause autoimmune disease 6 months or 6 years later? They never tested it! Overall your paper sounds like it’s coming from a high school student and not from one who sounds as overqualified as yourself. You should consider rewriting this with more actual science and facts. Not just a put down of Dr Finks paper.
c says
He did not say 90 perecent but 90 percent or more. Both Pfizer and Moderna have found their vaccines to be 94 and 95 percent effective. This has been clearly reported in the news. And it was pretty clear that it was effective at preventing corona – not just at “reducing symptoms.” These results are widely publicized and easy to follow. I don’t understand what you are asking in regard to “recorded problems”. They are clearly tracking the side effecrts ( i can tell you becasue i am participating in the trial!)… and lastly, how do you know eating chocolate cake isn’t causing autoimmunie disease? The answer is because it can’t 🙂
Tds says
Im not sure why people are calling now for doubling down on mask wearing. Now that most of this community has at this point had the virus, and its been shown to be nothing more than a flu (mild in most cases), what are people still so afraid of?
And can someone please explain what Dr Finks so called agenda would be? I can’t think of any. As for the above Dr and his affiliations I can definitely think of a few.
c says
the “agenda” being avoid any and all vaccines
Tds says
That’s not an agenda. What would be the gain of that? Why would anyone, let alone a Dr have an “agenda” to not get this vaccine?
Chana says
The fact that the community ignored good science is not something to be proud of. It is a terrible weight on the healthcare system — they are out of room for sick people all over the country. How many people outside the community got sick because of that irresponsibility? You still go to stores, you may pass the mailman or a neighbor not from the community — we have responsibilities not only to ourselves when dealing with rampantly
contagious diseases. Telling people not to get vaccinated by using garbage information is a terrible thing.
TS says
“most of the community” ??
how can you make that claim? my children attend Fuchs Mizrachi and I know of five students out of 450 who have had covid.
As for adults, most of our friends live in Beachwood, many of them attend Green Rd Synagogue – there have been around *10 ppl* (out of HUNDREDS) who have so far contracted Covid. You’re making a dangerous and false assumption.
SMS says
TD,
Most of the community has not contacted COVID. We are no where near herd immunity. Do you have proof that we are?
Covid is most certainly worse than the flu. The flu kills around 40,000 people a year. Covid has killed over 280,000. We are commanded to be mechalel shabbos for the chance of saving a life. Surely we should wear a mask for the chance of saving a life too. While most cases are minor, some end up deadly. Just because driving a car is normally safe, we also follow traffic laws and wear seatbelts as a means to stay even safer. COVID has killed 8x the number of people this year than motor vehicles. People are doubling down on proven prevention tactics because we are currently surging and the health care system is filling and running out of space and staff.
As someone taking care of covid patients and working in the hospital, I can assure you that we are overwhelmed, understaffed, and bursting at the seams. Patients are boarding for hours in the ER before being moved to a hospital bed. The Cleveland Clinic has canceled elective procedures because they don’t have the staff to take care of the patients- do you really think they’d give up a huge money maker if they didn’t have to? I implore you to take this seriously, social distance, and wear a mask so that we can save lives and, as if that’s not important enough, so that we can keep our shuls, schools, and economy open.
me says
For your information the UK just banned the pfizer shot for people with allergies due to some people having near death situations from taking the shot…I’ll leave it at that!
Chana says
They didn’t ban it, they suggested those people with histories of allergies to vaccines don’t take it. An allergic reaction can easily be countered. I would rather have a temporary allergic reaction than a permanent death.
me says
The UK is now banning people with allergies from taking the pfizer shot due to near death experiences and anyone who takes the vaccine they claim should be near a resuscitation machine…sounds safe to me!!!
Vaad Habrius says
BTW… everyone should google this Dr Michael Lidderman…. one star reviews… extremist, socialist communist with radical views on vaccination requirements since January. Devoted his life study to HIV and Aids….. doesnt really have a background on viruses that are transmitted like any SARS type virus or Covid. Pushes the view that either be vaccinated or ostracized from society
LjN couldn’t find a more level headed doctor to comment on Dr. Finks article? I’m going with Dr. Finks views. Levelheaded expertise in medicine and looking out for our community. As opposed to a communist left wing liberal like Lederman
Alex Fleksher says
Dr. Lederman is is a professor, not a practicing physician. My husband knows him personally and asked me to share here that those google reviews are from anti vaxxers trying to discredit him, as you will see the reviews are from the past few months. (He did practice medicine early in his career.) Dr. Lederman has received death threats. This is the degree of hate in the anti vaccine world, and he is a direct target.
TS says
this is nothing new. most *severely allergic* have issues with vaccine tolerance. this isnt a chiddush.
Mendel Singer, PhD MPH says
Dr. Lederman’s response wrote little about the science for a simple reason: Dr. Fink’s specific claims were pretty much all based on a single, false assumption. mRNA vaccines can’t affect your DNA. People with knowledge of this subject consider such a claim laughable. Dr. Fink’s claims aren’t original. He didn’t claim to be expert in this area. He is relaying information he saw elsewhere that concerned him. These scientifically preposterous claims originate with anti-vaxxers and is fear mongering.
Expect to see a lot more of these types of claims and gross exaggerations of side-effects, seizing any moment of real or imagined uncertainty. Most vaccine side-effects happen very soon after the shot – especially the 2nd dose. Remember, more than 50,000 people under Age 65 have died from COVID. Quite a few had been healthy. Talk to docs in the large frum communities. I did. They’ll tell you. Used to be if a healthy person in their 40s or even 50s died suddenly, the whole community was shocked and mourned the terrible tragedy. Now the large communities don’t even acknowledge it. Nor learn from it.
One last point. Please remember that anti-vaxxers aren’t trying to hurt people (nor are our medical and public health experts, by the way!). They are sincere people trying to help others. They are misguided and their work can be dangerous, so we have to respond strongly to the false claims. But let’s watch how we treat the *people*.
Mendel Singer, PhD MPH
Doreen Warn says
I am pleased that Dr. Lederman responded . I am sure I can trust his expertise in microbiology. The problem is that there is too much hyperbole all around . Yes , mRNA is a new platform . We won’t have definitive data on how this technology affects the body. We may have an inkling , but only time will tell. In meantime we have thousands of people dying and a real public health crisis.
I would suggest there’s a middle ground here. Should most everybody be lining up for this vaccine ? Probably not . Should almost no one be lining up for this vaccine ? Probably not. Risk benefit calculations matter here . The elderly and most vulnerable , particularly in congregated living arrangements, should be first in line . That is highest demographic for mortality by far . And longer term affects are not the same consideration for an 80 or 90 year old as in a younger person .Those at high risk should seriously consider this . On the other hand, stating that kids die of Covid too is scare mongering . Things happen. But that is more statistically unlikely than almost anything you can think of , save for in sick and immunocompromised infants (and children) . It makes no sense from a risk benefit point to vaccinate those at extremely low risk of bad outcomes . It makes more sense to enforce social distancing and quarantine rules. And stop pretending the rules don’t apply to us.
The biggest problem we have in this community is that common sense is not common . Some of the behaviors we have witnessed are the opposite of caring for the Klal . The truth is we all have to bear some inconvenience here, for the sake of our children who need to be in school , and for the sake of the health of our community.
Doreen Warn says
* effects (correction)
Mendel Singer, PhD MPH says
Responding to “Me”…..
The UK is not banning the vaccine for people with allergies. They are temporarily banning it for people with a history of *severe* allergic reactions. The 2 cases you refer to involved people who carry adrenaline shots with them because of a history of severe allergic reactions. People who carry Epi-pens will also delay their vaccinations.
Extreme precautions will be taken during this period, so get used to hearing about extraordinary measures taken that don’t mean there is great concern, but only an extreme overabundance of caution.
Mendel Singer, PhD MPH
Leah says
Lol…..you’d wager “HIS” life…..how about just start with your own? That’s too funny.
Tds says
Yes I know its been clearly reported in the news. Now the news definitely are guilty of having an agenda. Doesnt mean it’s an honest reporting. If you read the trials its nothing like a 94 reduction in the disease. It’s a reduction in symptoms in 94% of 95 participants. Not of 30,000 participants.
I don’t expect ppl like you to have known that but I expected our very esteemed and overknowledgable Dr to know that and not simply quote the news.
Ira Taub says
What is a resuscitation machine? I’ve been practicing medicine for a while and I’ve never seen one of those.
Chana says
The article by Eli Fink upset me deeply because it was clearly incorrect and I am so glad to see it refuted by a doctor of the caliber of Lederman. This kind of anti-vaccine propaganda is what is causing outbreaks of measles and other diseases and is going to kill people in this pandemic. Thank you for posting this article, hopefully people will read it
Vaad Habrius says
RNA is derived from the cells of Aborted Fetuses. It’s very sad that many of the medical professionals in our community and in Greater Cleveland in general refuse to prescribe a regimen HydroxyChloroquine, Azyrmthromycin, Zinc, Rendesfomar, etc. Proven treatments that help if taken at the early onset of symptoms. Proven 100 year old drugs. The fake tests done by corrupt agencies like the CDC, the WHO, like the fake news like the stolen election is part of todays falsehoods brainwashed society that even our physicians have bought into from Big Medicine and Big Pharma. We live in an Olam Hasheker and the pure lack of common sense which is derived from the Torah Derech is absolutely disgusting. Only Hashem can save us… there is no one and nothing to rely on… certainly not on corrupt society to save us. Any medicine derived from the blood of Aborted Fetuses is the Yored Tal Shel Damm on the Oilam who will mistakenly drink it as a supposed refuah and will be judged by it.
Otzar Achris HaYamim
Concerned doctor says
Tds States that most of this community has had the virus and therefore we don’t have to be vigilant about masking
How do you know that? If that was the truth, then we wouldn’t have had to close schools and kollel.
It is this kind of blind, ignorant naivete that leads to more and more asymptomatic people spreading the virus.
This is part of the problem for our community in trying to deal with the virus
Yitzchok Reis says
I am both disappointed and skeptical at the negative naysayers who couch their opinions in a disrespectful manner. No matter if you question ascience or are frustrated by the last several months, a ben torah should never forget the paramount mitzva of bein adom l’chavero. To do so is to scoff at our creator who demands more from his chosen people
Sorah says
The way people are speaking about others is very disheartening. I know Dr. Fink, I dont know Dr. Lederman, but speaking about either of them the way both Dr. Lederman refers to Dr. Fink is his article and the way people speak about them both in the comments is embarrassing. Feel free to share facts that you would like to back up, please dont embarass or shame others.
David Wilks says
Thank you Yitzchok. Well said.
Personally, I am going to favor treatments and prophylactics with solid safety profiles like hydroxychloroquine, fomatadine, zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, budesonide, etc.
Jake says
I have no medical or scientific knowledge concerning this matter, so I will not comment on it. However, I will say that anyone who thinks they are in a position to recommend mandatory national vaccination programs with severe consequences for non-compliance, is not to be trusted (see Dr. Lederman’s USA Today opinion column). If you think that you’re an authority on public health policy because you have 50 initials after your name, then everyone would be better off ignoring you.
concerned frum doctor says
omg
I have taken care of several hundred covid patients in the hospital mostly in the ICU.
Amazing to read a comment from the “Vaad Habrius about using hydroxychloroquine.
Not a single patient is getting it, because we know it doesn’t work.
Even President trump who pushed it early on did not get it when he was in the hospital.
Even fox news stopped pushing it months ago.
Here is the report on fox news and hydroxychloroquine
Ingraham, along with other Fox News stars, touted hydroxychloroquine for nearly a month as a potential miracle cure with “Lazarus”-like effects. The network, along with President Donald Trump, backed away from hyping hydroxychloroquine in mid-April after several studies showed the drug had no real benefits in treating coronavirus
The Hasidic doctor who was purporting its success has left Kiryat Yoel after a number of patients died. .
There are frum infectious disease doctors out there. Why aren’t we as individuals and as a community listening to them
Zev Kushner says
Just as a thought experiment assume that this vaccine is more dangerous than all vaccines to date…for example the mmr vaccine is given to around 100 million children a year…and perhaps 50 to 100 get serious side effects ..let’s assume the corona vaccine is given to 100 million people…..and 1000 or even 2000 people or more have serious side effects….seems like a lot right? Currently in cuyahoga county…mortality for COViD is about 1%. That’s 1 in 100!
Obviously it’s extremely more likely that you will be injured or die from getting COVID than from taking the vaccine……even if the vaccine is the most dangerous vaccine in history it’s just logic……
Unfortunately our community has succumbed to wishful thinking.. misinformation that people hope will save them without having to do anything …if someone breaks their leg they go to the hospital…. because we know there is no alternative…and guess what ..it’s the same thing here…there is no alternative….so do your loved ones a favor. And listen to the experts……it’s the only solution